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JAT member Kevin Kirton interviewed Frederik L. Schodt for the JAT website. Frederik L. Schodt is the author of what are arguably the most authoritative English-language books on manga. He has also written books on robotics and US-Japan relations. Among his published translations are the three novels in the Gundam Mobile Suit series and Osamu Tezuka's classic manga version of Crime and Punishment.
His new book coming out soon from Stone Bridge Press is titled Native American in the Land of the Shogun: Ranald MacDonald and the Opening of Japan, a non-fiction work about a half-Chinook, half-Scot young man who infiltrated Japan in 1848, was captured, and sent to Nagasaki, where he spent half a year teaching English to the Japanese "Dutch" interpreters, many of whom played important roles in negotiations with Perry and other foreigners post-1853.
On your website you have two of your own cartoons depicting high and low versions of the life of a translator. How much of these extremes have been real for you?
Well, the cartoons are obviously exaggerated, and show somewhat extreme situations, but I think I have definitely experienced both the high and low ends of the translator's life. At least enough to draw the cartoons! The irony here is that for most of my adult life, my main source of income has been interpreting, and not translation. I have some other cartoons about the trials and tribulations of interpreting, but I haven't put them on my website yet. It's a project for the future...
What have been some of your most extreme low and high points as an interpreter?
One of the low points was definitely my first interpreting job, around 1974 or '75, a very long time ago. I was working as a tour guide/tour escort in Los Angeles for Jalpak, as one of the first non-Japanese doing this sort of thing. One day my boss asked me to interpret for a group at Sunkist. He said, don't worry, you can do it, etc., etc., and I thought, well, why not? Unfortunately, it was a big conference room and some American came out and gave a mini speech on the citrus industry, which I knew nothing about. I didn't even know how to say "citrus" in Japanese. I was terribly embarrassed, mortified in fact. Afterwards some members of the Japanese group came up to me and told me I needed to study more. The Americans, however, came up and told me what a great job I had done. They had no idea of what I had said in Japanese, of course. This experience greatly encouraged me to go back to university in Japan, and to seriously study translation and interpreting.
Of the high points, it's hard to name a specific one. In general, interpreting is quite grueling work, but the pay is good and when people are happy and communicate well there is always a certain amount of pleasure to be derived. I have had the opportunity to interpret for some famous and high placed people, and that is always fun, for a while. The last few years, I have really concentrated on improving my simultaneous skills, and I am always happy when I feel as though I have done a good job. I am very selective about what I do, however, as I don't believe it's possible for interpreters or translators to do everything and anything well. One of my goals in life is to reduce work-related stress, to focus on what I like to do, and to focus on work that makes some sort of contribution to the world, and work that I can do well. Of course, to do this without starving is not always easy. You could say that I don't have a lot of ambition, and you might be right.
Do you think interpreting and translating provide a balanced work life? Or do you prefer one over the other?
If I had my druthers, I wouldn't do any work at all. I'd sit on the beach, ride my bicycle, take walks, play guitar, and hang out with friends. But as long as I have to work to stay alive, I think that doing both interpreting and translating works well for me. I can't make a living writing, and even if I could, I think I would keep doing some translating and interpreting. It seems to be a good mix.
Q: Are there any other translators in your family?
No. My parents both studied French in school and my father has studied some other languages a little bit (including Japanese; he spent some time in Japan and Okinawa in the late 60's, early 70's). My father never considered himself a professional translator, but he was a native speaker of Danish and did do some translating and interpreting work in both Danish and Norwegian for the U.S. State Department.
What kind of ordinary commercial translation work have you done? Apart from novels and manga, what kind of commercial translation jobs do you enjoy?
I've done a wide variety of translations, but I may be somewhat unusual in the U.S. in that I've never translated patents. Many years ago I worked in the translation department of Simul, in Tokyo, and then I translated government and business documents. In the U.S. I used to do computer manuals, etc. Now I usually don't solicit or accept generic translation work.
I try to focus on manga, and the occasional novel. But most of this work is really sort of a hobby. I don't think of it as my main source of income. It's more my life work, or something I'm simply destined to do. Even though I don't make a lot of money from translation these days, I find that I occasionally do rely on it. After September 11, when the bottom dropped out of the interpreting market, I was grateful for the translation work that I have. I've always been a generalist, and done both interpreting and translation work. In some circles this is regarded as rather heretical, but in the real world, I have found that it really helps to be diversified. In fact, were I not diversified, there are several times (such as post September 11), when I would have been eating grass.
Do you also mean "generalist" in terms of fields of specialization? Aside from manga, what would you consider your specialist areas?
For interpreting, my main area of expertise is computer and network technology. I have also done quite a bit of work in general business, and film and marketing. Manga, which I know a great deal about, doesn't generate a great deal of need for interpreting. I also know quite a bit about robotics and factory automation, but that has never generated much interpreting work, either, at least not directly, although it comes in very handy with factory tours.
Q: What are some of the things that you know about translation now that you wish you had known during your first year as a translator?
While I think my Japanese language skills were adequate at that point, of course they could have been better. But more importantly, I wish I had known more about translation as a profession and a business. I knew only a handful of other translators, and there were no resources like Honyaku or IJET then.
How have the relationships been between you and the editors/checkers of your manga and novel translations? Has there ever been any differences in opinion about the relative degrees of 直訳 and 意訳 in your work?
In general, my relationships with editors of my translations have been very good. I tend to translate very faithfully, and as literally as possible, but I also believe it's possible to do so using completely natural English. I may be in the minority on this. Nonetheless, the requirements for manga and novels are very different. Manga translations are rarely checked for literalness or even accuracy in the U.S., because they are intended for entertainment. In fact, an overly-literal translation in manga often means death for the story.
My philosophy with manga translations is that the drawings are always paramount. In other words, the translation must fit the image. If it doesn't, it fails as a translation, because readers will immediately perceive that something is wrong. That stated, it's also important to translate what the artist has written, as faithfully as possible. Manga fans can be fanatics, and they are very unforgiving if translations are incorrect. Often, they see themselves as the guardians of their favorite artist's work, and can read both Japanese and English, so it is very important not to offend them. They are the ultimate checkers. I've never had any fans send me death threats, but one has to be very careful.
With novels, I have had several of my works heavily checked. The most heavily checked work of all is my translation of Makoto Shiina's Gaku Monogatari [椎名誠、「岳物語」] issued by Kodansha International as Gaku Stories in the bilingual edition, and My Boy: A Father's Memories in the U.S. edition. That translation was first serialized in the Japan Times-related Shukan ST (formerly Student Times), where it was thoroughly checked. Then it was checked again for the Kodansha book edition. I am very proud of my translation, and love the story, but it received the dubious honor of being critically dissected, along with other even more illustrious translations, in a book titled 「英語になったニッポン小説」by Minami Aoyama [青山南] (Tokyo: Shueisha, 1996). The author's main complaint was that my English was too clean, and didn't reflect the darashinai style of Shiina's original prose. I personally didn't think this was a fair criticism, but one has to live with such things.
Is this like what happened recently to the Japanese subtitler-translator of The Lord of the Rings? Do you have any opinion about that case?
I'm not very familiar with this case, but I have great sympathy for anyone trying to translate texts or works that a large body of people care greatly about. It can be a very tricky business.
What kind of feedback have you got from the authors and artists of the novels and manga that you have translated?
Thus far, everyone whose work I have translated has been thrilled to have their books and manga appear in English. Usually, they are not sufficiently fluent in English to criticize the quality of the translation itself, which is always a great relief. I don't mind constructive criticism, but like many other translators, I suppose, my nightmare scenario is always having my work dissected by someone who doesn't have the language skills needed to be truly objective.
Have you ever had this experience with commercial translation? Do have any advice for how to handle these situations?
In the U.S. this is usually not a problem. The real problem is working in Japan, when the writer or editor knows a certain amount of English, but not enough, and starts hacking up the translation. It is one reason that the English quality of translations done in Japan is often somewhat problematic, even when done by native speakers of English. Everyone who works in Japan knows what I'm talking about. In the United States, more errors of meaning creep into the J-E translations done, but the English quality has to be very high. Often, when a J-E translation is read by someone well versed in the subject matter, errors in translation will be caught, even if the reader doesn't know Japanese.
For the translator, one has to be very diplomatic with the client. It's not a problem that I experience very much anymore, but I know how difficult it is. If a client creates too many problems, I recommend introducing them to a different translator. In other words, don't work for people who don't like your work, and don't let people hack up your work. On the other hand, if you're a new translator, or new to a field, having your work corrected by someone qualified can be an extremely important learning experience. In fact, having any errors corrected is always a very good thing. In that sense, I am extremely grateful to Simul, which hired me many years ago as a translator. My work was rigorously checked by editors and proofreaders, and sometimes the result was a rather flat, "Japanese" style of English, but the process helped me learn a great deal about translation. I don't know how people can learn to translate without going through this sort of experience.
What are some of the most common linguistic problems you come across when translating manga?
Many of the problems in translating manga are the same as those in translating novels—converting dialects, politeness levels, and puns, etc. Often there has to be a sacrifice made, since English has a very hard time reflecting the more subtle aspects of 敬語 and dialects, and literal translations of puns are usually impossible. But there are also problems unique to manga translation. For example, in manga, there is a tight space constraint. Often the English text has to be edited somewhat to make it fit in the word balloons. And, as mentioned before, the drawings always take top priority, so anything translated has to fit with the image displayed.
Do any examples come to mind of some word or sentence that was difficult to translate, but which you were able to find a good solution for?
It's great that you asked me this! I think one of the great frustrations of this line of work is that there are so few people who can understand how difficult the translation process is, unless they're fellow translators!
For the last year, I have been translating Osamu Tezuka's Astro Boy [「鉄腕アトム」or Mighty Atom] manga series for Dark Horse Comics. For a manga it's quite a long work, consisting of 23 paperback volumes, each of 220 or so pages. Since it was begun in 1952, moreover, it's a far more wordy work than most modern manga, and each volume has around 20,000 words.
One of the most charming aspects of Tezuka's stories is his wacky sense of humor, and his abundant use of word puns, and visual puns. I can usually find a work-around for word puns, but the visual ones can be a real killer. For example, in volume 1, some pals of Astro are interacting with a dog. In one panel, they tell the dog to roll over, to おまわりっ。 Tezuka was never one to pass up the opportunity to insert a good gag, so in the next panel he suddenly has a policeman [お巡りさん] appear. I am very proud of the solution I came up with for this one. In the first panel I had the kids say, "Roll over, puh-leeeez!" Then, in the next one, I had the policeman say, "You called for police?" Hey, I know it's corny, but I think it works quite well!
What currently untranslated manga do you think is the most deserving of translation?
I'd like to see more obscure stuff translated—the stuff that doesn't sell well and as a result probably won't be translated. One example that comes to mind is Kazuichi Hanawa's Keimusho no naka [花輪和一「刑務所の中」]。
What in particular attracts you to this manga?
I like the fact that the artist spent a couple years in jail and wrote about it in a very objective, unique way. I've never been in a Japanese jail, and I found his depiction very interesting. Hanawa's work is definitely worth checking out. It's not something you'd find in mainstream weekly manga magazines.
People often say "the movie wasn't as good as the original novel." Do you think this is also true for manga that become anime or movies?
Live action movies made of manga are usually not very good. Actually, Keimusho no naka was made into a movie last year, but I haven't seen it yet. Perhaps it's an exception.
Would you agree that there are cultural barriers that hinder cartoons like Doonesbury and Dilbert from translating well into Japanese?
Oh, there are obviously huge differences. I think Dilbert has a much better chance of success. Actually, I think many Dilbert episodes would work very well in Japanese. Among the right readers, of course. Doonesbury is much more problematic, since it has so many references to American cultural and political undercurrents of which most Japanese readers would not be aware.
Can you think of any Dilbert episode in particular that would work well in Japanese?
Not off the top of my head. But I think most Japanese salary-men could relate very well to much of the humor. It's all about intellectual slavery and personal humiliation within a hierarchy, after all.
Are there similar cultural barriers that hinder translation of manga into English?
Oh, yes. Most of the manga translated into English are those that have a fan base here already, often from exposure as animation. They tend to be action stories, or stories with overt and not so overt sexual themes, or cute stuff for children. It is rare to see manga translated that are tightly linked to Japanese daily life. For example, pachinko manga and salary-man manga are rarely published here. Manga for girls and women are just starting to appear, but they're a tough sell.
In terms of being in touch with the world of Japanese manga, do you feel "out of the loop" at all by living outside of Japan, or do you think the Internet mostly makes up for that these days?
My role as a general proselytizer of Japanese manga overseas is over. There are so many fans and translated manga now that people don't need anyone going around telling them what manga are all about. This is great, as it means I don't have to be so in touch with what is being done in the giant universe of manga. Instead, I just concentrate on what I am interested in. And in that sense, being outside of Japan is no handicap, and may even be an advantage. I visit Japan regularly, friends send me interesting manga, and I live only a 30 minute walk from San Francisco's Kinokuniya bookstore. I don't get sucked into the Japanese media vortex. Life is good.
Can you think of any specific manga that you think will have a lasting effect as a work of art?
Believe it or not, Masamune Shirow's work (especially his Ghost in the Shell or 攻殻機動隊 manga), has already had a huge influence on American comic book artists.
What advice would you give to a translator who was looking to get a foot in the door for manga-related translation work?
I wouldn't recommend it as a profession. There isn't enough work in manga translation to support many translators, and there are too many fans willing to do it for next-to-nothing. There is more work in animation dubbing and sub-titling, but that also is problematic, in as much as so many fans will do it for free.