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Updated 2000-10-01
Interview with Meredith McKinney: The Challenges of Translating Literature
Meredith McKinney

Winner of Japan-U.S. Friendship Commission Prize for the Translation of Japanese Literature

JAT Bulletin 186, September 2000. Publications Committee

Every year the Donald Keene Center of Japanese Culture at Columbia University awards two Japan-U.S. Friendship Commission Prizes* for the Translation of Japanese Literature, each worth $2,500. The award is open to all nationalities, and entries are judged on the literary merit of the translation and the accuracy with which it reflects the spirit of the Japanese original. Eligible works include book-length unpublished manuscripts, works in press, or books published during the two years prior to the prize year.

This year the prize for the best translation of a modern work of literature was awarded to Meredith McKinney for her translation Ravine and Other Stories by award-winning novelist Furui Yoshikichi 古井由吉** (published by Stone Bridge Press). The stories in this anthology are 谷 (Ravine, 1973), 哀原 (Grief Field, 1976), 先導獣の話 (Bellwether, 1968), and 中山坂 (On Nakayama Hill; 1986). After living in Kyoto for many years, Meredith is now a freelance translator and part-time lecturer in Japanese and Asian Literature at the Australian National University in Canberra. Her other published literary translations include アオギリの詩 (The Flame Tree) and Cooloola no Tasogare (クルーラの黄昏)—translations of the poetry of Judith Wright that were both co-translated with Sakai Nobuo 酒井信雄 — and The Tale of Saigyo (translation with introduction and notes; Michigan Papers in Japanese Studies, No. 25). Meredith is currently completing a Doctorate in Asian Studies (topic: A Study of The Tale of Saigyo) at the Australian National University.


JAT
Congratulations on your award. It is an outstanding achievement that enhances the status and profile of all translators of Japanese literature. To give JAT members a taste of your wonderful prose, let me quote from the second paragraph of 'Ravine':

"It came back to me now, as a chill autumn rain came racing suddenly in from the mountain, beating at the branches of the forest, and shrouded the ravine where I lay in a sound that merged with the sound of the stream's rushing, till it was as if the rain was pouring upward, out of the earth. And it seemed to me then that, from beneath the almost paralyzed quietness that lay wrapped at the heart of the water's roar, the rich and lustrous weight of a chanting voice reverberated with an astonishing clarity." ***

Why did you decide to translate Furui Yoshikichi? Were you asked to do so by the publisher, or were you attracted by the psychological aspects of Furui's works, or by his style and stretching of the limits of the Japanese language, or by other factors?

McKinney
When I first read Furui, some twenty years ago now, I was quite simply enthralled by him. I've always been very attracted by any work of literature that somehow manages to create the intensity and strangeness of dream for the reader, and Furui's world does just that for me. It was partly because I couldn't work out how he did it that I decided to try translating a couple of his stories, just for fun really, as a way of trying to come to grips with his writing. At that stage, the task of making a good translation from him was beyond me—both because his Japanese was so difficult, and because my understanding of how to translate was so naive and blundering, I suppose. After a lot of sweat, a lot of pleasure and even more despair, I had two fairly abominable translations of two of the stories in this collection ("Bell Wether" and "Grief Field"). I put them away, though I kept reading Furui. It was only many years later, when I saw an advertisement asking for submissions of short story translations for a possible collection (which in fact never got made) that I decided to pull them out and try again. His writing worked its old magic on me all over again as I redid the translations, but this time I felt at last I could somehow begin to match his writing with something that worked in English. I went on to translate two more stories, and the result is this book.

So, to answer the second half of your question, it was probably the psychological aspects of his writing that first attracted me, and his style and extraordinary Japanese that defeated me. It was only when my own sense of Japanese had matured a lot more that I finally came to feel how the style, the language and the dream-like effects were all intimately connected, and this I suppose gave me the power to see how I might transform his writing into successful English.

JAT
Why did you select these particular short stories for this anthology?

McKinney
The two stories I first chose for translation were both ones that particularly engaged me when I read them— "Bell Wether" for its brilliant evocation of the strange world of rush-hour city Japan, and "Grief Field" for its peculiar intensity, its strange compelling circling in on some intimate and ungraspable "other world" at the borders of our everyday sense of things. Later, when I was looking for two more stories to translate, "Ravine" was an obvious choice for me. I love Furui's mountain writing (his book of essays, 山に行く心, is a wonderful book), and "Ravine" is a great example of it, Furui at his best I think. "On Nakayama Hill" took more finding. I wanted something more recent, but reading his recent short stories reminded me of why I'd stopped reading him—for me his writing has become just too oppressive and death-obsessed in recent years, and repetitive (a problem so many writers in Japan face and so few overcome). I wanted something a bit different, a bit lighter, but still having that old Furui dream-like quality to it, and I finally found it in "On Nakayama Hill". I liked it the least while translating it, but now I'm very fond of it.

JAT
What particular challenges were involved in translating Furui for Western readers, and did you have direct contact with him while you translated?

McKinney
Well there isn't a great deal in Furui that's culture-specific, since he deals essentially with a world that's not only beyond cultural norms but often beyond any normal social world whatsoever. "On Nakayama Hill" presented the most difficulties on that level, since it is set in a more typical Japanese reality, and it was hard to recreate for an English-speaking audience the little wayside eatery where much of the action takes place. Though frankly I had more trouble with the race track scenes, since I know nothing of racing terminology! But my real problems in these translations centred around the weird discontinuities that Furui creates, which Japanese is a lot more tolerant of than English—our acute sensitivity to verb tense makes it peculiarly difficult to achieve the kind of blurred sense of time that he's so masterful at, for instance.

When I first translated "Grief Field" I was foolish enough to send a copy to Furui. He never responded, and I don't blame him. More recently, when the book was being made, I contacted him again to ask his permission, and this time received a kindly but rather curt response, directing me to his agent for future negotiations. I got the distinct impression he wasn't interested in being pally with his translators, so I left it at that! He's a reclusive person, I know, and I well understand the need writers have to keep extraneous human contacts to a minimum, so that's fine by me.

JAT
Did you attempt to bring Furui into the Western readers' world, domesticating his works so that they would be more readable and familiar, or did you attempt to preserve his Japaneseness and transport Western readers into Furui's world? Or do you think he has a universal appeal, rather than being a 'Japanese writer'?

McKinney
Yes I think I'd agree with the last statement. As I said, there's not much that's specifically "Japanese" about Furui, at least as we normally understand that word. More fundamentally, though, I do think his sensibility is very "Japanese", or at any rate is deeply rooted in the folk world of Japan, the world of shamanism and the kind of awed and intimate response to the natural world and the world of death in which folk Shinto has its roots. There's no way I could "domesticate" this, but on the other hand there's absolutely no need to, since this is a world which many westerners (including myself) respond to deeply when we first meet it, I think.

JAT
In his works Furui uses unusual kanji with his own nuances (e.g., hashagu はしゃぐ, which cannot be produced here), and a critic once referred to his style as 心理の微分 (an attempt go beyond the limits of ordinary language). How did you go about conveying these nuances and subtleties in your translations?

McKinney
In such cases, there's really very little you can do to reproduce the specific effect. All you can do is be sensitive to these things as they occur, acknowledge and pay them due respect, rather than simply going for the easy "what he means is"translation —and if possible reach for a word or expression that in some similar way stretches the language or at least momentarily unnerves the reader a little. Furui's vocabulary is very rich, which is a pleasant challenge, but he also stretches certain expressions to encompass far more than their dictionary meaning. I did my best to convey this where I could, to find a word whose slight oddness shifted the reader's linguistic consciousness in the same disconcerting way. In many cases I didn't succeed. My only hope is that, knowing the sort of effect he generally aims at, I occasionally managed to reproduce it in other ways.

JAT
Are there any other stories by Furui that you would like to translate? What about his long and very challenging stories Kari oujou denshibun 仮往生伝試文 or his 'wet' Asagao 槿? Or some of his recent works, which are said to be becoming more difficult to read?

McKinney
As I said, it's really his earlier work that most attracts me, and I think I share this with many of his readers. I love the novella Youko (杳子) that won the Akutagawa Prize, and wish I'd been the one to translate it. Among his novels, Hijiri 聖: ひじり is one I'd still like to translate. I'm sure later ones would turn out to be fascinating to do, but they don't compel me as the earlier ones do I'm afraid.

JAT
You have already published several translations, including an annotated translation of Saigyou monogatari 西行物語, and you are currently working on a doctoral thesis on the 12th century poet Saigyo. Where did you receive your training in classical Japanese literature, and what are some of the particular challenges involved in translating such works?

McKinney
I taught myself classical Japanese, with Japanese high school text books that I found in the bookshops. Not the best way to do it—they have a horrifyingly rigid approach to language learning and to literature—but they certainly do a thorough job of teaching the basics, and in the process you get a wonderful understanding of how Japanese readers read their own literature, which is immensely useful. I did it because I'd begun to read Basho's "Narrow Road" with a local reading group (読書会) in my neighbourhood in Kyoto, and was frustrated at how little I could really understand. Then, through Basho, I fell in love with his great forebear Saigyo (even more difficult!), and became determined to learn how to read him.

That's how I came to translate Saigyou Monogatari, as a stumbling attempt to come to grips with his poetry in the context of his life. I seem to launch into all my translation projects from a position of absolute ignorance and desire to learn, come to think of it! In the process of learning the language, I inevitably became familiar with many of the works of classical literature, following my nose more or less, reading what attracted me. There are thus great gaps in my knowledge —which I'm still happily filling in.

As for the difficulties of translating classical Japanese literature, well they're just immense. But, on the principle that any translation is better than nothing and everything's worth a try, I'll keep plugging away at it nevertheless.

JAT
You have also published translations of two anthologies of the poetry of Judith Wright, who until her recent death was one of the most significant and best loved of Australian twentieth century poets. What was it like translating her poetry—a notoriously difficult genre to translate in any case—into Japanese, which is not your native language? How did you and your co-translator, Sakai Nobuo, work together?

McKinney
These translations were done over quite a few years, in rather desultory fashion really—Sakai-san and I would meet for an afternoon once a week, and each week we'd each bring our tentative translation of a chosen poem. We'd exchange these, and proceed to go over the poem line by line, referring to both our translations, nutting out what the final version should be. Needless to say, Sakai-san's version was generally infinitely preferable to mine, and he had the final say in what the finished line was, but from time to time I did get a line of my original translation incorporated, which was always a nice moment. But the final version really was a mutual product of our discussions, and it was fascinating to be able to toss nuances around between the two languages, each of us of course more sensitive to the nuances of our native language. Sakai-san, though an academic (he's head of the English Dept. at Tezukayama University), is a very skilled and linguistically responsive reader and translator of literature, and I learned an immense amount from him in the process of this project. The final translations have received warm praise from readers, and I'm satisfied that they're largely successful, though of course I'm constantly aware of all that's had to be sacrificed of the original poem.

JAT
What challenges were involved in translating Australian poems for a Japanese audience? Were the difficulties related more to the content or to the form and language of the poems?

McKinney
Well rhyme and rhythm, both of which are immensely important in her poetry, were of course the first things to go—a huge loss. With problems of form, there's very little one can do. So most of our struggles were linguistic ones (which includes questions of tone as well as meaning).

Specifically Australian content was of course also a problem, and some poems we simply had to bypass—"Bullocky" is an example of a poem that would have required a mini-essay to make sense of it to a Japanese reader. For some of the other problems, we resorted to sleight of hand. An example is in the title poem for the collection Aogiri no Uta: this is a translation of "Flame Tree", a tree which of course doesn't exist in Japan. But then, most Australian readers would have little idea of what a flame tree was, and this doesn't interfere with reading the poem, so Sakai-san chose a tree whose name was euphonious in Japanese and which in fact does appear in some dictionaries as a (mis)translation of "flame tree", and we went with that. This is the kind of compromise we decided had to be made, for the sake of the poetry.

JAT
As Judith Wright's daughter, did you find that your personal knowledge of our mother gave you deeper insights into her poems, or did you feel that this complicated the task of translation?

McKinney
That's a difficult one! I suppose I did have a very strong "personal reading" of a lot of the poems—whether that could be called an insight or not is another matter. Some of the references which Sakai-san had difficulty with I could elucidate from personal experience. Poems like "At Cooloola", for example, involve places and family references that I'm very familiar with, and my knowledge did guide our translation to some extent. But, more than having any direct influence on the translation process as the poet's daughter, the point for me was really that my own reading of the poems was incredibly enriched by the process of helping translate them. I knew those poems like I knew my own hand, on an intuitive level, but (perhaps for that reason) I found I hadn't really READ them. Translation is undoubtedly a wonderful way of really getting to grips with a poem. The experience gave me a whole new understanding of my mother's poetry.

JAT
Could you cite one short poem and the Japanese translation to give our readers a feel for Judith Wright's poetry and how it was translated?

McKinney
・・・・・・EGRETS

Once as I travelled through a quiet evening,
I saw a pool, jet-black and mirror-still.
Beyond, the slender paperbarks stood crowding;
each on its own white image looked its fill,
and nothing moved but thirty egrets wading -
thirty egrets in a quiet evening.

Once in a lifetime, lovely past believing,
your lucky eyes may light on such a pool.
As though for many years I had been waiting,
I watched in silence, till my heart was full
of clear dark water, and white trees unmoving,
and, whiter yet, those thirty egrets wading.

・・・・・・白鷺

かつて、静かな夕暮れを旅していたとき
真っ黒な、鏡のように静まりかえった水面の池をみた。
向こう岸には、白い姿を心ゆくまで水に映し
ほっそりとした白樺が群れ立っている。
動くものは、水を踏む三十羽の白鷺
静かな夕暮れどきの白鷺だけだった。

生涯に一度、信じがたいほど美しい
このような池に出会うことがあるのだ。
何年も待ちつづけたかのように私は
じっと眺めた ー 真っ黒な澄んだ水と
静止した白い樹の群れと、それにもまして白い
静かに水を踏む白鷺が胸に満ちるまで。


JAT
Do you have any advice for aspiring translators of Japanese literature?

Read lots! In both languages. Very often, I think, it's a translator's sense of English that creates poor translations, as much as difficulties with Japanese.

McKinney
The only other advice is to treat dictionaries as guides rather than bibles. Translations that are made from constant reference to dictionaries are generally dead translations. You have to feel your way into the writing, once you've grasped the "what it says". That's why it's important, I think, to choose works that you respond strongly to as literature. (Ideally, you ought to want to have written the work yourself in the first place, when you first come across it, though that's a tall order I know.)

JAT
Do you do any non-literary translations?

McKinney
Yes, over the years I've done a number of other translation jobs, a lot of them translations for exhibition catalogues, or essays written by artists for various publications. On the whole, they're quite fun, and certainly a lot easier than "literary" translation.

JAT
Do you teach translation as part of your classes in Japanese literature at the Australian National University?

McKinney
I did teach a translation course a few years ago, and would enjoy teaching it again some time. But generally the course I teach is open to non-Japanese speakers, so inevitably it's based on translated works.



* This year the prize for the best classical literary translation was awarded to Professor Roger K. Thomas for his translation of Enchi Fumiko's Namamiko Monogatari なまみこ物語 as A Tale of False Fortunes. Although Enchi Fumiko is a twentieth-century novelist, this particular work contains many passages in Heian prose style, so Professor Thomas' translation was regarded as eligible for the classical literature award.


*
*古井由吉についての解説を、会員の松本裕さんにお願いしました。

1937.11.19東京生まれ。
東大独文科卒業後、金沢大、立教大でドイツ語を教え、ブロッホ『誘惑者』(1968)、ムジール『愛の完成』など現代ドイツ文学の翻訳を手がけながら創作活動に入る。同人雑誌「白描」に処女作『木曜日に』(1968)発表後、「海燕」を皮切りに各文芸誌に短編を書き継ぎ、「円陣を組む女たち」(1970)、「男たちの円居」(1970)など作品集を次々と刊行する。1970年立教大を退職。同年の作『杳子』で芥川賞受賞。その後、長編『行隠れ』(1972)、『水』(1973)、『櫛の火』(1974)、『聖』(1976)、『女たちの家』(1977)、『栖』(1979、日本文学大賞)、『山躁賦』(1982)、『槿』(1983、谷崎潤一郎賞)、と旺盛な創作意欲を見せる。近年の作品集には「明けの赤馬」(1985)、「眉雨」(1986)、「夜はいま」(1987)、「魂の日」(1993)、「陽気な夜まわり」(1994)、「白髪の唄」(1996)、「夜あけの家」(1998)、長編に『仮往生伝試文』(1986)などがある。

マッキニーさんが翻訳した『谷』は短編集「水」(1973)に、『哀原』は「哀原」(1977)に、『先導獣の話』は「円陣を組む女たち」(1970)に、『中山坂』(川端康成賞受賞)は「眉雨」(1986)に所収のものだが、たとえば『中山坂』の初出が「海燕」1986年1月号であるように、いずれも初出は文芸誌である。現在は『哀原』を除いて、『谷』が講談社文芸文庫「水」(\951)、『先導獣の話』が講談社文芸文庫「木犀の日」(\981)、『中山坂』が福武文庫「眉雨」(\485:今のところ版元では品切れとのこと)で手に入る。

『中山坂』の老人が「むこうからわなわなと身を傾けてきて」といったイメージ喚起力の豊かな文体と、飛躍的なことばの連鎖が古井文学のすべてと言えるが、その翻訳の難点をマッキニーさんが、「英語では許されないが、日本語では許される魅惑の不連続性」と指摘しているのは興味深い。別なところで古井文学の本質として言及しているアニミズム、さらには死生観を媒介として作家と芭蕉、さらには西行にまで通底する隠遁の精神と無縁ではないからだ。芭蕉の七部集を繙くまでもなく、歌仙を少しでもかじれば、不連続の連続というイメージ連鎖の要諦は知れる。さらに、そのイメージはプルーストの絵画性とは異なり、どこまでも情緒的または心理的または精神的であり、その方向は避け難くタナトスへ、そしてエロスへと向かうはずである。


*
** 原文は次の通り。

「・・・に思い出した。山のほうから時雨が樹の枝を叩きながら速足で寄せて来て谷の上におおいかぶさり、沢音とひとつに混りあい、逆に地の底から湧き立つように上げてきた時である。そのざわめきの奥につつまれた麻痺感に似た静けさの底から、重い艶のある読経の声がほとんど朗々と響き出てくる気配があった。」

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